Gorgias 3-62

Gorgias: pp. 3-62
Gorgias: “You don’t know the half of it, Socrates! Almost every accomplishment falls within the scope of rhetoric. I’ve got good evidence of this. Often in the past, when I’ve gone with my brother or some other doctor to one of their patients who was refusing to take his medicine or to let the doctor operate on him or cauterize him, the doctor proved incapable of persuading the patient to accept his treatment, but I succeeded, even though I didn’t have any other expertise to draw on except rhetoric. Think of a community – any community you like – and I assure you that if an expert in rhetoric and a doctor went there and had to compete against each other for election as that community’s doctor by addressing the Assembly or some other public meeting, the doctor would be left standing, and the effective speaker would win the election, if that’s what he wanted. In fact, it doesn’t matter what his rival’s profession is: the rhetorician would persuade them to choose him, and the other person would fail. It’s inconceivable that a professional of any stamp could speak more persuasively in front of a crowd than a rhetorician on any topic at all … A rhetorician is capable of speaking effectively against all comers, whatever the issue, and can consequently be more persuasive in front of crowds about – to cut a long story short- anything he likes. Nevertheless, the fact that he’s capable of getting people to think less highly of doctors and their fellow professionals doesn’t mean that he has to do so. Just like any competitive skill, rhetoric should be used when morally appropriate.” (p. 19-20)
“Rhetoric is the only area of expertise you need to learn. You can ignore all the rest and still get the better of the professionals.” (p. 24)
Gorgias believes that power is a desirable trait, and that people who posses it are inherently happy. This passage reveals the sense of great pride which comes with victory over another person. Gorgias loves to be in control and hates to be confronted with obstacles. Gorgias finds rhetoric so superior to any other trade, which he claims that “almost every accomplishment falls within the scope of rhetoric.”

Socrates (in response to Gorgias): “That was why I was astonished at the suggestion you made a little later that a rhetorician might actually put his rhetoric to immoral use; I thought you were being inconsistent and so I said what I said about how our discussion would be worthwhile if you were like me and saw the profit in being proved wrong, but that otherwise we should just forget it. And now we’ve reached a point in our enquiry where you can see for yourself that we’ve come to the opposite conclusion – that a rhetorician is incapable of putting his rhetoric to immoral use and of deliberately doing wrong.” (p. 26)
Socrates is making his point that rhetoric should not be used to belittle or promote injustice. This passage reveals the fact that Socrates expects a respectful discussion. He does not want emotions to run into the facts. He is clear at his intensions, and tells Gorgias up front that he believes he is wrong. Socrates cares about others, and cares that know what is right and wrong. I believe his greatest challenge to Gorgias was the reformatting of his argumentation. He wanted to teach him how to be useful and productive.

Polus: “But of course they do! Rhetoricians are the most powerful members of their communities, aren’t they?” (p.34)
Although the passage is short, I believe this statement made by Polus summaries his entire argument. Because Polus was trained, or training, or be a rhetorician he wanted to believe that it was the most powerful an envied job. He did not know if this was true or not, but he desperately wanted it to be. His sense of self-doubt rang clear through the discussion between himself and Socrates. He would make an assertion, but immediately follow it with a question for the sake of approval. Polus did not think that the concepts of right and wrong played into rhetoric, or were of any importance.

Socrates (in response to Polus): “In my opinion, it takes true goodness to make a man or woman happy, and an immoral, wicked person is unhappy.” (p.43)
“You’re producing no compelling reason why I should agree with you; all you’re doing is calling upon a horde of false witnesses against me to support your attempt to dislodge me from my inheritance, the truth… I’d almost go so far as to say that in their case there’s nothing more admirable than knowledge and nothing more contemptible than ignorance, since that would amount to knowledge or ignorance about what it is to be happy and what it is to be unhappy.” (p.45)
Socrates shows his maturity and respect for the art of argumentation towards Polus. He wants to teach the young scholar how to argue and debate, and how to argue and debate about passionate ideas. If Socrates did not want Polus to transform his ways, he would not have pointed out his flaws. Socrates response to Polus’s assertions also reinforces his deep interest in morality and right verse wrong. He wishes to include others, and share his passion for understanding.